Charlotte wrote: ↑Wed May 31, 2023 11:05 am
thenextstalin wrote: ↑Tue May 30, 2023 10:47 pm
If the CIA is helping to break apart China through Uyghur independence then I support the Uyghurs. Anti-imperialism be damned in this case.
This is fascinating example (and honest)of how a wrong theory can you lead you to walk openly into camp of imperialism.
Under imperialism there are oppressed nations by a handful of parasite nations. Well who are the oppressed nations? Defined by Lenin they are NATO today
Capitalism has grown into a world system of colonial oppression and of the financial strangulation of the overwhelming majority of the population of the world by a handful of “advanced” countries. And this “booty” is shared between two or three powerful world plunderers armed to the teeth (America, Great Britain, Japan), who are drawing the whole world into their war over the division of their booty.
So with the Uyghur nation is the Uyghur nation oppressed by China? Or are the multiple nationalities of China oppressed by US imperialism and the NATO nations during the century of humiliation. Who is
drawing the whole world into their war over the division of their booty? Who is trying to divide the world?
I recognize that U.S. and European imperialism is currently oppressing the entire world. But the fact remains that in the short term Uyghur independence is more important than imperialism making some small gains. The fact remains that the Anglos, "Chinese", French wouldn't accept being under someone else's thumb against their will for themselves, why should the Uyghurs accept it?
From my Party's program following the MAC line:
Imperialism is the biggest threat to the global working class because it prevents nations from achieving independence. Which then impedes communism. Imperialism slowly destroys nations. The majority of the world speaking English even as a second language is proof that nations are being slowly destroyed. When a language is replaced, a nation dies. Imperialists also use social liberal freedoms such as multinationalism, abortion, LGBT, and mass immigration that depopulate the native nations both at home and abroad for peripheral countries. It’s done to prevent the native nations in these countries from banding together to overthrow the private property owners. For the peripheral countries, they promote social liberal policies because they're just stealing natural resources from these places. But they usually don't promote social liberal policies to labor exploited countries that make all their products, because they need the population to grow in these cases to perform the labor. A country being annexed is a fast death for a nation. A country that’s imperialist or being exploited is a slow death because the imperialists will promote that mixture of social liberal freedoms to depopulate and replace the native nations slowly. An imperialist country can't annex every country in the world, but it can exploit the entire world with money. The slow death is better in the short term for both nations, because they can live to fight another day. But in the long term the slow death is more deadly to the world.
However, in keeping with MACism we do not support crude materialism or crude anti-imperialism when it comes to a nation’s independence in regards to external, foreign threats. National independence and self-determination should take priority over everything. They shouldn't be subordinated for any situation. Not for anti-imperialism, not for some unrealistic idea of achieving global communism first, not for maintaining a multinational communist country, not for anything. Even if a nation is being used as a pawn by an imperialist country, recognize why it’s happening, but support the immediate survival for the nation being used. In these imperialist proxy wars against anti-imperialist forces, self-determination is more important than the small gains made by imperialists. Remember that annexation is a fast death. So if it’s between anti-imperialist annexing and the immediate survival for a nation, choose the immediate survival. Just follow the national question to make sure the nation in question deserves independence. Always place yourself in someone else’s position and see what you would do to ensure your survival. A nation’s survival matters more than communism and anti-imperialism. There can't be communism for that nation anyways if they die out. So no nation should be ever expected to sacrifice themselves in any situation for some supposed greater good. In fact no nation would accept that. Denying a nation’s self-determination only strengthens imperialism in the grand scheme of things.
China is letting itself be "oppressed" by imperialism. They opened up so they could get rich like Enver Hoxha said.
If you want a real lesson in communism. Then China and the DPRK are all caught up in global capitalism. When China accepts U.S. money they're taking stolen money. They're really no better than the U.S., all that money being shifted around is stolen wealth. Same goes for DPRK who accept aid from China.
The only socialist country in history who was fully independent was Albania. They accepted Soviet and Chinese help in the beginning, but at the time China wasn't part of global capitalism back then, so it wasn't tainted aid. As soon as they announced they were opening up, Albania rightfully cut ties with them. Albania still traded with some capitalist countries around them, but they weren't imperialists countries so the trading was more equal.
You would be a nationalist for your white nation (that doesn't exist)
The Uyghurs for the most part don't give a rats arse about independence. The majority are happy with autonomy.
The ones calling for separatism are like Rushan Abbas Joey mentioned above.
Rushan Abbas is a
self confessed cosmopolitan who tortured her own people in Guantanmo
As an American, I’m very proud of working for the US government in Guantanamo while translating for 22 uyghur inmates there. The uyghurs were treated respectfully with dignity and rights in Guantanamo. Do you want to contact them and ask how they feel about GTMO? They would tell you that their lives inside of the GTMO cell blocks were better than the normal uyghur people’s lives outside of the concentration camps. GTMO detainees were able to fast, able to pray, they weren’t force to eat pork. They had Quran and praying rugs.
Like I said I don't know much about the Uyghur movement itself. I've read the MAC saying they support Uyghur independence so I'm gonna assume the Uyghurs themselves want independence, and not just this Abbas guy who you say is just a puppet.
Your statement that Uyghurs don't care about independence, but are happy with autonomy is contradicting. They don't have autonomy as long as they're a part of China. They would have more autonomy under U.S. compradorship than being annexed by China.
The separatists in Xinjiang are not rooted in their nation but US imperialism (ie cosmopolitanism). If Xinjiang separatists were successful in Xinjiang would they be rooted in their nations and peoples or would they be rooted (like the Ukrainian Nationalists) in cosmopolitan imperialism?
When a genuine National movement arises in Xinjiang it will be because of a retreat of US imperialism and fraternal relations among nations
This is a matter of the Uyghurs choosing the slow death of U.S. imperialism over the fast death of annexing they're experiencing by China. Obviously the slow death is preferred, they can have more time to fight for independence since they know U.S. imperialism won't annex them.
I also don't understand why you don't call China out for being cosmopolitan too, they have a multinational country with different languages in it. It's also cosmopolitanism. You guys aren't even following Stalin's original national question. Because if you did then you'd China would have to break up too. They've got multiple languages, multiple, cultures, multiple economic lifestyles since their citizens can get rich. You're not following any consistent line.
In the grand scheme of things you're only strengthening imperialism by denying self-determination. National independence is how we'll achieve social progress. It's the only thing that will ultimately stop imperialism. If nations are truly independent they won't accept being exploited by imperialists.