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thenextstalin
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Post by thenextstalin »

JoeySteel wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 6:28 pm You are a MAC member?
That's great. I hope you stick around :Lkiss
I only pick this as an example as it was one I remembered
But MAC does definitely support bourgeois nationalism in Britain (obviously Northern Ireland is part of Irish nation)


But like the Ukrainians(who collaborated with Nazis) and the Uyghurs (descendants of a stranded Turkic army in Xinjiang that have sided with every invader against China for their own State, who have recently abandoned Uyghur culture in favour of Gulf State islamism)...
The Scottish Nationalists were(and still are) most ratlike imperialists and trying to collaborate during ww2
The interceptions by British code breakers revealed that communications between the head of the German legation in Dublin and his superiors in Berlin included a memorandum, received on August 15, 1943, from a group known as the Scottish Independent Movement.

The memo contained proposals for a German Scottish alliance "as a weapon in the fight against the gross materialism of the capitalistic-communistic union of English, Americans, Bolsheviks etc".
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/may ... humanities

If Scottish Nationalists ever genuinely rose to Statehood they would do it collaboration with another imperialist power and become pure reaction just as the Ukrainians did in OUN and sign up for Einzatsgruppen and had to base their entire nationalism on ethnic chauvinism and a death cult
A nation siding with imperialists to free itself should be encouraged if communists are keeping them trapped. Ideally it's supposed to be communism that grants the rights of self-determination. But communists have ruined that so in some cases, like the Uyghurs, they see communism as an enemy to their independence.

The Ukraine Nazis are fake nationalists. They speak Russian, they should be welcoming the merger with Russia.

I honestly don't know much about Scotland's history. But they speak English now and are white. They're part of the Anglo-English Nation along with the rest of the UK. So their history isn't what matters now. They should be Anglo-English Nationalists, and give up the fake Scottish nationalism that no longer exists.

I've actually thought about the situations in the rest of the Anglo worlds. It would help to have Anglo-English sister parties in these continents to help get the word out. But the real transition will be in the U.S./Canada. Once the Anglos in the North America merge, the rest will follow suit willingly probably. And if not, the Anglos in North America can force the merge in the UK/Australia/NZ with their army.
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Post by Gemini »

Gemini wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 9:54 pm
Charlotte wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 6:10 pm Btw just in case on the absolute 1 in a million chance this is not a troll (and for anyone else reading this generally)
Majority of us here reject the theory of the "Black" (and therefore "white") Nation in anglo countries
Reasoning is expounded here

https://espressostalinist.com/2020/10/0 ... the-u-s-a/
Holy smokes that fucking article slays (char posted so I knew I had to read)
Just got to this bit..
But Foster still was a key member and secured an interview with Stalin. He claimed that Stalin had supported him. As we shall see this was not correct, in writings made available in 1929.

At the Sixth Congress, the resistance of the Americans to the critiques on “American Exceptionalism,” were to be dealt with again. In the meantime, James Cannon had discovered Trotskyism and so was born American Trotskyism. And the Negro Nation line was put.
Holy fucking shit. The Anglo line of black nation was put down in USA by a petite-booj individualist like Foster (who advocated a birth strike!!!) and a fucking Trotskyite
I am still blown away by this.
I feel like this work should be assembled into pdf format for possible printing!
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Post by JoeySteel »

thenextstalin wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 7:08 pm
I can only respond briefly as I don't have much time this week
A nation siding with imperialists to free itself should be encouraged if communists are keeping them trapped. Ideally it's supposed to be communism that grants the rights of self-determination.
Uyghur nation has a very weak national identity. The only people attracted to it are desperately poor and infected jihadism by the CIA running jihadis over the border from Afghanistan for the entire time the Afghan war was going on. China has found a good remedy of economic development
But communists have ruined that so in some cases, like the Uyghurs, they see communism as an enemy to their independence.

The Ukraine Nazis are fake nationalists. They speak Russian, they should be welcoming the merger with Russia.
Ukrainian Nationalists are not in fact nationalists but imperialists. Just like the separatist Uyghurs in Xinjiang that are the jackboots of cosmopolitan imperialism and funded, armed and supported by every NATO intelligence agency going and organised under the (US controlled) ruthless World Uyghur Congress
Written in Chinese, their interpretation may not be easily accessible to the Western world. In reality, China protects Uyghur culture, tolerates Muslim religion, while trying to stymie terrorist attacks and the separatist push coming from the World Uyghur Congress (WUC).
Indeed, the Chinese leader is up against a powerful organization, i.e. the World Uyghur Congress, which was created by the CIA during the Cold War, and which the US daily disingeniously portrays as being totally peaceful.

However, the World Uyghur Congress, based in Munich (Germany), has directly claimed responsibility for many deadly attacks in China. In addition, thousands of Uyghur combatants were sent to be trained in Syria with Turkey’s assistance. [3] More than 18,000 Uyghur jihadists are currently occupying the city of al-Zanbaki (Idlib governorate) where German and French NGOs provide them with food and health services.
https://www.voltairenet.org/article208556.html

Which took rise of Taliban in Afghanistan to kick the East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ie. CIA funded footsoldiers of USA) out of Afghanistan
confirmed that members of the Islamic Movement in East Turkestan have already been ordered to leave Afghanistan.
This movement, also known as the Turkestan Islamic Party, has claimed responsibility for several hundred terrorist attacks in China over the past 30 years. It intends to establish an Islamic Emirate in Xinjiang. The exact size of its membership is unknown, but it controls the enclave of al-Zanbaki in Syria, (Idlib governorate), which has become a Chinese city. This group is now protected by the CIA and armed by Turkey.
https://www.voltairenet.org/article214002.html

Speaking Turkish, rather than Chinese, they have benefited so far from the support of the Turkish secret services.
These Uyghurs claim to be al-Qaeda. They refuse to return to China (where they would be judged) [1] and Turkey now refuses to host them.
The presence of this sizeable Chinese colony disrupts the liberation plans for the region.
https://www.voltairenet.org/article202535.html

The "Uyghur Separatists" have been doing this for years. As far back as 2009 they were rioting

Any so-called "independence" coming from the Uyghurs under modern conditions of imperialism would necessarily result in most deranged death cultists like jihadis to force a weak national identity in a land that was considered part of the great game between Russia and Britain for 100s of years.

WUC has been at this for decades (this article is from 2009)
Two different versions of the same events: The Chinese government and pictures of the riots indicate it was Uyghur riot and attacks on Han Chinese residents that resulted in deaths and destruction. French official reports put the blame on Chinese police “shooting indiscriminately.” Significantly, the French AFP report relies on the NED-funded Uyghur American Association of Rebiya Kadeer for its information. The reader should judge if the AFP account might be motivated by a US geopolitical agenda, a deeper game from the Obama Administration towards China’s economic future.

Is it merely coincidence that the riots in Xinjiang by Uyghur organizations broke out only days after the meeting took place in Yakaterinburg, Russia of the member nations of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. , as well as Iran as official observer guest, represented by President Ahmadinejad?
The WUC manages to finance a staff, a very fancy website in English, and has a very close relation to the US Congress-funded NED. According to published reports by the NED itself, the World Uyghur Congress receives $215,000.00 annually from the National Endowment for Democracy for “human rights research and advocacy projects.” The president of the WUC is an exile Uyghur who describes herself as a “laundress turned millionaire,” Rebiya Kadeer, who also serves as president of the Washington D.C.-based Uyghur American Association, another Uyghur human rights organization which receives significant funding from the US Government via the National Endowment for Democracy.
https://www.voltairenet.org/article161012.html

You can read Andre Vltchevks brilliant article on how (Salafist inspired, foreign imported) Uyghurs are footsoldiers of imperialism and are working for NATO in Syria/ South east Asia/ Indonesia)
viewtopic.php?t=228

You can even look individually at Uyghur activists like Rushan Abbas who did a wonderful Reddit ama a few years back where she was exposed as being a CIA agent and having worked with every single US regime change apparatus


Right of Self Determination for Uyghurs today would be as farcical as Ukraines "right to self determination" which has been just turned into a NATO camp to sell weapons, fuck Russias periphery, put the Russian army on its back for a decade, Black Rock and IMF to buy up all it's resources and the no1 destination for human trafficking and organ harvesting
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Post by thenextstalin »

We're in agreement that Ukraine self-determination shouldn't be supported.

The Uyghurs speak a different language than Mandarin/Cantonese so they are a different nation though. They also have a different appearance, but since you guys don't believe in that, then the language is still enough.

As for the citations you provided, I don't really know much about the Uyghurs situation overall. But the language difference is enough for any of it to not matter. If the CIA is helping to break apart China through Uyghur independence then I support the Uyghurs. Anti-imperialism be damned in this case. The Uyghur's independence is the most important thing to them. Anyone who is a nationalist would understand the situation and side with them if you believe the Uyghurs to be a different nation.

If you don't believe them to be a different nation, then I understand your point of view of the situation, but I still think you're making a mistake. Because they are a different nation.
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Post by Charlotte »

Gemini wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 9:27 pm I am still blown away by this.
I feel like this work should be assembled into pdf format for possible printing!
Well done on volunteering for this project Comrade.
You have until end of day tomorrow to put this into PDF (and epub) format

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Post by Charlotte »

thenextstalin wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 10:47 pm If the CIA is helping to break apart China through Uyghur independence then I support the Uyghurs. Anti-imperialism be damned in this case.
This is fascinating example (and honest)of how a wrong theory can you lead you to walk openly into camp of imperialism.
Under imperialism there are oppressed nations by a handful of parasite nations. Well who are the oppressed nations? Defined by Lenin they are NATO today
Capitalism has grown into a world system of colonial oppression and of the financial strangulation of the overwhelming majority of the population of the world by a handful of “advanced” countries. And this “booty” is shared between two or three powerful world plunderers armed to the teeth (America, Great Britain, Japan), who are drawing the whole world into their war over the division of their booty.
So with the Uyghur nation is the Uyghur nation oppressed by China? Or are the multiple nationalities of China oppressed by US imperialism and the NATO nations during the century of humiliation. Who is drawing the whole world into their war over the division of their booty? Who is trying to divide the world?
The Uyghur's independence is the most important thing to them. Anyone who is a nationalist would understand the situation and side with them if you believe the Uyghurs to be a different nation.
You would be a nationalist for your white nation (that doesn't exist)
The Uyghurs for the most part don't give a rats arse about independence. The majority are happy with autonomy.

The ones calling for separatism are like Rushan Abbas Joey mentioned above.
Rushan Abbas is a self confessed cosmopolitan who tortured her own people in Guantanmo
As an American, I’m very proud of working for the US government in Guantanamo while translating for 22 uyghur inmates there. The uyghurs were treated respectfully with dignity and rights in Guantanamo. Do you want to contact them and ask how they feel about GTMO? They would tell you that their lives inside of the GTMO cell blocks were better than the normal uyghur people’s lives outside of the concentration camps. GTMO detainees were able to fast, able to pray, they weren’t force to eat pork. They had Quran and praying rugs.
The separatists in Xinjiang are not rooted in their nation but US imperialism (ie cosmopolitanism). If Xinjiang separatists were successful in Xinjiang would they be rooted in their nations and peoples or would they be rooted (like the Ukrainian Nationalists) in cosmopolitan imperialism?

When a genuine National movement arises in Xinjiang it will be because of a retreat of US imperialism and fraternal relations among nations
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Post by MichaelLanne »

Uyghur nation has a very weak national identity. The only people attracted to it are desperately poor and infected jihadism by the CIA running jihadis over the border from Afghanistan for the entire time the Afghan war was going on. China has found a good remedy of economic development


Saying that all Uyghur nationalists are islamists is a complete ignorance of reality. The strongest Uyghur nationalist party before 1991 was the East Turkestan People's Revolutionary Party, a Marxist-Leninist organization supported by the USSR, Cuba and Vietnam. If China gave right to self-determination for Uyghurs (what they promised in 1949, you can read Andropov), China would have a socialist ally, and less internal conflicts. if you look at the whole history of Turkestan nationalist movement, you see that they just used the changing ideologies as ways for their nationalism, and only joined Islamist recently.

The Question for any serious person should be : why all Uyghur nationalists, originally communists, became islamists? This is not a question of "CIA"… CIA doesn’t create movement out of thin air (the people believing that should explain why are there no separatist movement in homogenous Cuba or DPRK). This is because Communism, after the fall of USSR, was seen as the ideology of the Mandarin enemy, and that Islamism was seen as the perfect clothe in the age of "Terror". This is what Marxism is supposed to do : rationalize people’s thoughts.




Right of Self Determination for Uyghurs today would be as farcical as Ukraines "right to self determination" which has been just turned into a NATO camp to sell weapons, fuck Russias periphery, put the Russian army on its back for a decade, Black Rock and IMF to buy up all it's resources and the no1 destination for human trafficking and organ harvesting
No, because Uyghurs are an actual nation, they are fighting a war and will never give up. You are basically giving Uyghurs to Imperialists hands. You are essentially backwards from 50 years, because the fall of Soviet Union essentially proved that this never worked, that nations will never be sacrificed for Socialism or anti-imperialism, that like Marx explained, internationalism exists on independent nations.
The goal of a communist should be to explain that Imperialists and Islamists are cosmopolitan and will also destroy the nation, the only way for national independence being Socialism.


EDIT : can I get my message authorized? I don’t see what is breaking any rule….
Last edited by MichaelLanne on Wed May 31, 2023 2:18 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Post by RedAlert »

thenextstalin wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 10:47 pm Anti-imperialism be damned in this case. The Uyghur's independence is the most important thing to them.
This thread took a turn in pure cringe.
Image
Xinjiang has been a periphery nation forever. It was swapping sides (like Ukraine) between Russia and Britain and Turkey during Chinas hundred years of humiliation.

Being a comprador nation (see book) I can assure you the "Uyghurs independence" is not the most important thing to them. If the separatists got their way they might bring about an 'East Turkestan' but it would be with a massive destruction of their nation of Uyghurs which would just up and leave and go live in another country. Much like Ukrainians have gone to Russia or various European countries and have zero intention of ever going home


As if other people can't learn languages or speak more than one language
Attachments
Katyusha 40 different languages.mp4
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Post by thenextstalin »

Charlotte wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 11:05 am
thenextstalin wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 10:47 pm If the CIA is helping to break apart China through Uyghur independence then I support the Uyghurs. Anti-imperialism be damned in this case.
This is fascinating example (and honest)of how a wrong theory can you lead you to walk openly into camp of imperialism.
Under imperialism there are oppressed nations by a handful of parasite nations. Well who are the oppressed nations? Defined by Lenin they are NATO today
Capitalism has grown into a world system of colonial oppression and of the financial strangulation of the overwhelming majority of the population of the world by a handful of “advanced” countries. And this “booty” is shared between two or three powerful world plunderers armed to the teeth (America, Great Britain, Japan), who are drawing the whole world into their war over the division of their booty.
So with the Uyghur nation is the Uyghur nation oppressed by China? Or are the multiple nationalities of China oppressed by US imperialism and the NATO nations during the century of humiliation. Who is drawing the whole world into their war over the division of their booty? Who is trying to divide the world?
I recognize that U.S. and European imperialism is currently oppressing the entire world. But the fact remains that in the short term Uyghur independence is more important than imperialism making some small gains. The fact remains that the Anglos, "Chinese", French wouldn't accept being under someone else's thumb against their will for themselves, why should the Uyghurs accept it?

From my Party's program following the MAC line:
Imperialism is the biggest threat to the global working class because it prevents nations from achieving independence. Which then impedes communism. Imperialism slowly destroys nations. The majority of the world speaking English even as a second language is proof that nations are being slowly destroyed. When a language is replaced, a nation dies. Imperialists also use social liberal freedoms such as multinationalism, abortion, LGBT, and mass immigration that depopulate the native nations both at home and abroad for peripheral countries. It’s done to prevent the native nations in these countries from banding together to overthrow the private property owners. For the peripheral countries, they promote social liberal policies because they're just stealing natural resources from these places. But they usually don't promote social liberal policies to labor exploited countries that make all their products, because they need the population to grow in these cases to perform the labor. A country being annexed is a fast death for a nation. A country that’s imperialist or being exploited is a slow death because the imperialists will promote that mixture of social liberal freedoms to depopulate and replace the native nations slowly. An imperialist country can't annex every country in the world, but it can exploit the entire world with money. The slow death is better in the short term for both nations, because they can live to fight another day. But in the long term the slow death is more deadly to the world.

However, in keeping with MACism we do not support crude materialism or crude anti-imperialism when it comes to a nation’s independence in regards to external, foreign threats. National independence and self-determination should take priority over everything. They shouldn't be subordinated for any situation. Not for anti-imperialism, not for some unrealistic idea of achieving global communism first, not for maintaining a multinational communist country, not for anything. Even if a nation is being used as a pawn by an imperialist country, recognize why it’s happening, but support the immediate survival for the nation being used. In these imperialist proxy wars against anti-imperialist forces, self-determination is more important than the small gains made by imperialists. Remember that annexation is a fast death. So if it’s between anti-imperialist annexing and the immediate survival for a nation, choose the immediate survival. Just follow the national question to make sure the nation in question deserves independence. Always place yourself in someone else’s position and see what you would do to ensure your survival. A nation’s survival matters more than communism and anti-imperialism. There can't be communism for that nation anyways if they die out. So no nation should be ever expected to sacrifice themselves in any situation for some supposed greater good. In fact no nation would accept that. Denying a nation’s self-determination only strengthens imperialism in the grand scheme of things.
China is letting itself be "oppressed" by imperialism. They opened up so they could get rich like Enver Hoxha said.

If you want a real lesson in communism. Then China and the DPRK are all caught up in global capitalism. When China accepts U.S. money they're taking stolen money. They're really no better than the U.S., all that money being shifted around is stolen wealth. Same goes for DPRK who accept aid from China.

The only socialist country in history who was fully independent was Albania. They accepted Soviet and Chinese help in the beginning, but at the time China wasn't part of global capitalism back then, so it wasn't tainted aid. As soon as they announced they were opening up, Albania rightfully cut ties with them. Albania still traded with some capitalist countries around them, but they weren't imperialists countries so the trading was more equal.
You would be a nationalist for your white nation (that doesn't exist)
The Uyghurs for the most part don't give a rats arse about independence. The majority are happy with autonomy.

The ones calling for separatism are like Rushan Abbas Joey mentioned above.
Rushan Abbas is a self confessed cosmopolitan who tortured her own people in Guantanmo
As an American, I’m very proud of working for the US government in Guantanamo while translating for 22 uyghur inmates there. The uyghurs were treated respectfully with dignity and rights in Guantanamo. Do you want to contact them and ask how they feel about GTMO? They would tell you that their lives inside of the GTMO cell blocks were better than the normal uyghur people’s lives outside of the concentration camps. GTMO detainees were able to fast, able to pray, they weren’t force to eat pork. They had Quran and praying rugs.
Like I said I don't know much about the Uyghur movement itself. I've read the MAC saying they support Uyghur independence so I'm gonna assume the Uyghurs themselves want independence, and not just this Abbas guy who you say is just a puppet.

Your statement that Uyghurs don't care about independence, but are happy with autonomy is contradicting. They don't have autonomy as long as they're a part of China. They would have more autonomy under U.S. compradorship than being annexed by China.
The separatists in Xinjiang are not rooted in their nation but US imperialism (ie cosmopolitanism). If Xinjiang separatists were successful in Xinjiang would they be rooted in their nations and peoples or would they be rooted (like the Ukrainian Nationalists) in cosmopolitan imperialism?

When a genuine National movement arises in Xinjiang it will be because of a retreat of US imperialism and fraternal relations among nations
This is a matter of the Uyghurs choosing the slow death of U.S. imperialism over the fast death of annexing they're experiencing by China. Obviously the slow death is preferred, they can have more time to fight for independence since they know U.S. imperialism won't annex them.

I also don't understand why you don't call China out for being cosmopolitan too, they have a multinational country with different languages in it. It's also cosmopolitanism. You guys aren't even following Stalin's original national question. Because if you did then you'd China would have to break up too. They've got multiple languages, multiple, cultures, multiple economic lifestyles since their citizens can get rich. You're not following any consistent line.

In the grand scheme of things you're only strengthening imperialism by denying self-determination. National independence is how we'll achieve social progress. It's the only thing that will ultimately stop imperialism. If nations are truly independent they won't accept being exploited by imperialists.
Last edited by thenextstalin on Thu Jun 01, 2023 5:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by RedAlert »

thenextstalin wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 1:15 pm I recognize that U.S. and European imperialism is currently oppressing the entire world. But the fact remains that in the short term Uyghur independence is more important than imperialism making some small gains. The fact remains that the Anglos, "Chinese", French wouldn't accept being under someone else's thumb for themselves, why should the Uyghurs accept it?
But the US is oppressing Europeans.
The Anglos (CIA and Tavistock Institute) are exporting degeneracy and depopulation.
The Anglos just blew up NS2 to destroy European industry and tie them to USA as US is forced into rolling back it's sphere of market

In fact, were it not for US occupation of Germany after 1945 the population of Germany would be 150 million. Same for Japan which now has more old people wearing diapers than babies and children. It is not an accident Germany and Japan are being depopulated
The US is just imposing a slightly less harsh version of the Morgenthu Plan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgenthau_Plan
In this context Europeans are more oppressed than Uyghurs in China.

The Uyghurs in China did not get the 1 child policy whilst the han Chinese in Xinjiang were subject to it. See the decrease in Han Chinese during the 1 child policy
Image

Xinjiang in this context is getting rapid industrialisation by China for a number of reasons
A) China subscribes to a growth based model of win-win cooperation inspired by Marxism/La Rouche (who has a fair amount of influence over there
B) Belt and Road initiative needs Xinjiang
C) Bringing commerce to Xinjiang to provide economic growth/jobs and optimism
Like I said I don't know much about the Uyghur movement itself. I've read the MAC saying they support Uyghur independence so I'm gonna assume the Uyghurs themselves want independence, and not just this Abbas guy who you say is just a puppet.
I would bet my life that if separatists won in Xinjiang Rushan Abbas would be parachuted into government like Syngman Rhee was.
This is a matter of the Uyghurs choosing the slow death of U.S. imperialism over the fast death of annexing they're experiencing by China. Obviously the slow death is preferred, they can have more time to fight for independence since they know imperialism won't annex them.
Uyghur nation is thriving under PRC State - look at population increase
Compare this population to Germans/Japanese/Baltic/Poland states since leaving Soviets/US occupation. It is the nations within NATO that are being slowly killed - whilst Uyghur nation in Chinese State is growing stronger daily
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Post by thenextstalin »

RedAlert wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 1:59 pm
thenextstalin wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 1:15 pm I recognize that U.S. and European imperialism is currently oppressing the entire world. But the fact remains that in the short term Uyghur independence is more important than imperialism making some small gains. The fact remains that the Anglos, "Chinese", French wouldn't accept being under someone else's thumb for themselves, why should the Uyghurs accept it?
But the US is oppressing Europeans.
The Anglos (CIA and Tavistock Institute) are exporting degeneracy and depopulation.
The Anglos just blew up NS2 to destroy European industry and tie them to USA as US is forced into rolling back it's sphere of market

In fact, were it not for US occupation of Germany after 1945 the population of Germany would be 150 million. Same for Japan which now has more old people wearing diapers than babies and children. It is not an accident Germany and Japan are being depopulated
In this context Europeans are more oppressed than Uyghurs in China.

The Uyghurs in China did not get the 1 child policy whilst the han Chinese in Xinjiang were subject to it. See the decrease in Han Chinese during the 1 child policy
Image

Xinjiang in this context is getting rapid industrialisation by China for a number of reasons
A) China subscribes to a growth based model of win-win cooperation inspired by Marxism/La Rouche (who has a fair amount of influence over there
B) Belt and Road initiative needs Xinjiang
C) Bringing commerce to Xinjiang to provide economic growth/jobs and optimism
Like I said I don't know much about the Uyghur movement itself. I've read the MAC saying they support Uyghur independence so I'm gonna assume the Uyghurs themselves want independence, and not just this Abbas guy who you say is just a puppet.
I would bet my life that if separatists won in Xinjiang Rushan Abbas would be parachuted into government like Syngman Rhee was.
This is a matter of the Uyghurs choosing the slow death of U.S. imperialism over the fast death of annexing they're experiencing by China. Obviously the slow death is preferred, they can have more time to fight for independence since they know imperialism won't annex them.
Uyghur nation is thriving under PRC State - look at population increase
Compare this population to Germans/Japanese/Baltic/Poland states since leaving Soviets/US occupation. It is the nations within NATO that are being slowly killed - whilst Uyghur nation in Chinese State is growing stronger daily
Europe is willingly being a part of U.S. imperialism, just like China is. They're not being oppressed, they're choosing it. They're choosing the money over being independent.

It's why communism in Albania ended. The Albanians wanted the money, they didn't want to live on their own any longer.

I've seen that statistic that the Uyghurs are growing in population. But the fact remains that they're being annexed. That growing population isn't going to matter when all their people speak Mandarin and lose their native Turkic Uyghur language. They're being assimilated, it can't be denied. It's a fast death even if the population is growing.
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Post by RedAlert »

thenextstalin wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 2:07 pm Europe is willingly being a part of U.S. imperialism, just like China is. They're not being oppressed, they're choosing it. They're choosing the money over being independent.
Pal this is beyond bullshit. Bourgeois Dictatorship intervened in a very specific way to get todays outcome of Europe smiling for the Americans as it puts a double barrelled shotgun in its mouth

Mi6 and CIA had to do Operation Gladio all over Europe, CIA created the European Union, overthrew the Harold Wilson government in Britain, killed Olaf Palme, did the Bologna massacre in Italy, overthrew Gough Whidam in Australia in 1970s to prevent a pivot to independent foreign policy etc. etc.
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Post by Charlotte »

thenextstalin wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 1:15 pm
I also don't understand why you don't call China out for being cosmopolitan too, they have a multinational country with different languages in it. It's also cosmopolitanism.

China's culture is not global. China doesn't posit itself as a comospolitan force but emphasies it's own unique civilisation.
NATO now considers citizens of other countries it's citizens if they happen to be sodomites
Image

You guys aren't even following Stalin's original national question. Because if you did then you'd China would have to break up too. They've got multiple languages, multiple, cultures, multiple economic lifestyles since their citizens can get rich. You're not following any consistent line.

You've already abandoned Stalins National Question it altogether. Our understanding of National Question has already been expounded by Stalins Marxism and National question and the rewrite of the program in 1919
Last edited by Charlotte on Wed May 31, 2023 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by thenextstalin »

RedAlert wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 2:18 pm
thenextstalin wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 2:07 pm Europe is willingly being a part of U.S. imperialism, just like China is. They're not being oppressed, they're choosing it. They're choosing the money over being independent.
Pal this is beyond bullshit. Bourgeois Dictatorship intervened in a very specific way to get todays outcome of Europe smiling for the Americans as it puts a double barrelled shotgun in its mouth

Mi6 and CIA had to do Operation Gladio all over Europe, CIA created the European Union, overthrew the Harold Wilson government in Britain, killed Olaf Palme, did the Bologna massacre in Italy, overthrew Gough Whidam in Australia in 1970s to prevent a pivot to independent foreign policy etc. etc.
Here's an example that will convince you.

Under a slow death via compradorship all the people have to do to end the slow death is overthrow their comprador government. These European countries can save their nation immediately.

Under a fast death via annexation, the people have to fight the foreign country that's annexing them. It's much harder for them to save their nation.
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Post by thenextstalin »

Charlotte wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 2:26 pm
thenextstalin wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 1:15 pm
I also don't understand why you don't call China out for being cosmopolitan too, they have a multinational country with different languages in it. It's also cosmopolitanism.

China's culture is not global. China doesn't posit itself as a comospolitan force but emphasies it's own unique civilisation.
NATO now considers citizens of other countries it's citizens if they happen to be sodomites
Image

You guys aren't even following Stalin's original national question. Because if you did then you'd China would have to break up too. They've got multiple languages, multiple, cultures, multiple economic lifestyles since their citizens can get rich. You're not following any consistent line.

You've already abandoned Stalins National Question it altogether. Our understanding of National Question has already been expounded by Stalins Marxism and National question and the rewrite of the program in 2019
U.S./NATO is on another level of cosmopolitanism yes, but China is still cosmopolitan itself.

What's the rewrite? I haven't read it.
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Post by Charlotte »

Rewording of program in 1919 I meant
TS put it here
viewtopic.php?p=616#p616
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Post by Charlotte »

thenextstalin wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 2:26 pm Under a slow death via compradorship all the people have to do to end the slow death is overthrow their comprador government. These European countries can save their nation immediately.

Under a fast death via annexation, the people have to fight the foreign country that's annexing them. It's much harder for them to save their nation.
This is false, the compradors in Xinjiang have the full backing of the weight of imperialism for instance.
They created absolute chaos in Hong Kong and can probably create a war in Taiwan - 2 situations where national question is far more clear cut.

Whilst United States has 35000 troops in Germany and bases all over Germany they can operate from any real deviation of policy becomes next to impossible as US uses these to subvert your entire civic life.
Diana Johnstone in her book on Yugoslavia for instance shows how the 1999 Yugoslav wars were really for a base in Kosovo that could never be dislodged even in the case of revolutions etc.

edit: I add picture because why not
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Post by thenextstalin »

Charlotte wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 2:32 pm Rewording of program in 1919 I meant
TS put it here
viewtopic.php?p=616#p616
I'm not following, what's the new national question? You should be able to explain it in either one sentence or one paragraph.

Charlotte wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 2:40 pm
thenextstalin wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 2:26 pm Under a slow death via compradorship all the people have to do to end the slow death is overthrow their comprador government. These European countries can save their nation immediately.

Under a fast death via annexation, the people have to fight the foreign country that's annexing them. It's much harder for them to save their nation.
This is false, the compradors in Xinjiang have the full backing of the weight of imperialism for instance.
They created absolute chaos in Hong Kong and can probably create a war in Taiwan - 2 situations where national question is far more clear cut.

Whilst United States has 35000 troops in Germany and bases all over Germany they can operate from any real deviation of policy becomes next to impossible as US uses these to subvert your entire civic life.
Diana Johnstone in her book on Yugoslavia for instance shows how the 1999 Yugoslav wars were really for a base in Kosovo that could never be dislodged even in the case of revolutions etc.
They can have backing and even internal bases, but it's still easier than having an entire country invading you. That's the difference. When the world sees a country fighting within itself they usually don't interfere by sending in their own armies.

Although this new NATO bullshit you mentioned raises a concern if NATO countries are going to directly attack countries that aren't allowing LGBT. This is a new development that might be a problem with the line I'm trying to hold.
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Post by Charlotte »

Well it is in the link I sent you
The All-Russian Communist Party regards the question as to who expresses the desire of a nation for separation, from a historical-class point of view , taking into consideration the level of historical development of any given nation: whether the nation is passing from medievalism toward bourgeois democracy or from bourgeois democracy toward soviet or pro-letarian democracy, etc.
In any case, particular care and attention must be exercised by the proletariat of those nations which were oppressing nations, toward the remnants of national feelings of the working masses of the oppressed or dependant nations. Only by such a policy is it possible to create favourable conditions for a voluntary and real unity of different national elements of the international proletariat, as has been proved by the experiment of the union of several national Soviet republics around Soviet Russia
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Post by Gemini »

Charlotte wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 9:18 am
Gemini wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 9:27 pm I am still blown away by this.
I feel like this work should be assembled into pdf format for possible printing!
Well done on volunteering for this project Comrade.
You have until end of day tomorrow to put this into PDF (and epub) format

Your reward will be a certificate in service to socialism
It is now up

viewtopic.php?t=239
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